Petition Letter
THIS IS UNREADABLE. I attach a formatted copy as additional documentation
I am giving the full circumstances - this will be longer than a page.
I am writing to request permission to audit course Phil 464.
There have been a number of mixups in attempting to register for the grad equivalent of this course, Phil 864, which I have been attempting to do since 11th Jan 2018, exacerbated by my having had pneumonia since early December. This means I have been reliant on email to attempt to sort things out ¿¿ I have only had the energy to get to class. In full expectation of being able to register and pay for the course, I have attended all but one class, have presented two short seminars, and have begun work on the paper for the course.
Mixup number 1:
Every term I either audit or take for credit one course. I have been doing this since I became a post-degree student in 2008. These have included both undergrad and grad courses. I am doing a PhD part time through UCL in the UK and such courses have been invaluable support to my academic work. I most recently audited Phil 850 in fall 2017, with no issues with enrollment.
However, without my being informed, the system has apparently changed, and the procedure I have been through on countless occasions (getting the signed approval of the lecturer on the undergrad academic change form and then submitting to the philosophy dept) is apparently no longer correct. The only change on my part was that, due to illness, I sent the form electronically, together with an email from the instructor.
Here is the email correspondence:
Sent to adminphil on 11 Jan
Hi - just sent you an academic change form. Below is an email from D. Salay confirming that I have permission to take the course.
Let me know if there is anything else I need to do.
Thanks
Kate Mackrell
Begin forwarded message:
From: Nancy Salay salay@queensu.ca
Subject: Re: taking your course
Date: January 10, 2018 at 9:38:24 AM GMT-5
To: Kate Mackrell katemackrell@mac.com
You have my permission to sign into PHIL 864.
This e-mail should suffice.
N.
Received from Susanne Cliff-Jungling 12th Jan
Hi Kate,
I just noticed that you completed the undergrad form, not the one for SGS.
I realize you have audited courses with us before, but was confused why you would want to be considered an undergrad student taking a grad course ¿¿ until I realized it was just the wrong form.
I will create a new form and attach the old with your signature on it; and will ask Graduate Coordinator David Bakhurst to sign. Going forward, can you please ensure you use the SGS academic change form for these course audits Blank form attached. It will help avoid confusion on our end.
That said, while I was trying to sort this out in my head, I pulled your record and noticed that you have two courses on your transcript (PHIL 850 and PHIL 841) which show up as ¿¿F¿ rather than AU for audit. Were these indeed courses you took for credit or should they have been listed as audits and something went wrong
Please let me know.
Thanks
Susanne
Sent to Susanne Cliff-Jungling Jan 12
Hi Susanne,
Sorry about the confusion. I¿¿m actually a post-degree student at Queen¿¿s rather than a grad student, which I think technically makes me an undergrad.
No, the PHIL 850 and PHIL 841 were indeed F¿¿s - I didn¿¿t complete them because I was unexpectedly up to my neck working with Syrian refugees. I¿¿m hoping to negotiate completing these at some point, but not right now.
I¿¿m working on a PhD at UCL in the UK - I do courses at Queen¿¿s for credit when they are directly relevant to my research - and I anticipate having the time to do the work Miscalculation two years ago. That¿¿s why I just audited for awhile.
I want to take this course PHIL 864 for credit - time to take the risk again.
Kate
Mixup 2
I was not aware that the course was also running as an undergrad course. I¿¿d heard about it from the grad students in Phil 850 the previous term, which is why I was interested in taking it. There were no handouts and I couldn¿¿t access the online course materials, so I never actually saw an undergrad course number. I thought that the undergrads in the class simply had special permission to take a grad course. I only learned that it was an undergrad course as well when a fellow student sent me an email entitled ¿¿Phil 464¿ on Feb 5. I would have been perfectly happy to register for this course ¿¿ what I wanted was the class discussion, the course materials, and feedback from the instructor. I didn¿¿t care whether or not the course was a grad course. This possibility was not pointed out, and I heard nothing further until it was past the 19th Jan deadline for registering for an undergrad course.
Sent to Susanne Cliff-Jungling on Jan 22:
Hi Susanne,
I note that I¿¿m not yet registered for PHIL 864 Hope there hasn¿¿t been a problem with this.
Kate
Received from Susanne Cliff-Jungling on Jan 24
Hi Kate,
Well, this has indeed been somewhat of an issue.
It is not exactly clear to me how you were able to take the previous grad courses ¿for credit¿¿ (i.e., receiving a grade), but going forward that will not be possible under your current status at Queen¿¿ ( as far as I can tell from your transcript, that is ASC Non-Degree).
This status refers to undergraduate and so does not apply for the graduate courses. Even undergraduate courses, with the status you currently have, would only be possible as audits, not for credit.
This might have been possible in the past, but current regulations would not allow this.
So, going forward and assuming that you want to take the graduate course (PHIL 864), and be officially enrolled in a grad course and have it show up on the transcript and get a grade for it (as opposed to auditing the course), you have to apply to SGS to do so under special student status¿¿which means you would be enrolled in a graduate course but not taking a graduate degree (if you get accepted). You would have to pay a fee to take the course. You would not be an undergrad non degree or post degree student in this case, since the course you want to take for credit is a graduate course.
There is more information on this regulation here: http://www.queensu.ca/sgs/graduate-calendar/admission-and-registration under Student Categories, Special Student.
You will need to fill out the paper version of the application form (available at SGS; I have also quested copies and should have them here in the department by Friday) and pay the application fee by cheque or money order. As you can see from the website, there will also be fees for the course and student activity fees. For details you will need to consult SGS and/or the Office of the Registrar.
Please let me know if you have any questions.
Best,
Susanne
Sent to Susanne on Jan 25
Hi Susanne,
I am a post-degree undergraduate student in the Faculty of Arts and Science and hence have the right to take courses for credit. Mostly, as I have a lot of other responsibilities (I am doing a PhD at another institution), I audit courses, but when something is particularly relevant I take the course in order to ¿¿force¿ myself to do the work and in order to have feedback from the instructor.
As such, I simply need the permission of the instructor to take a grad level course as an undergrad, and this is what I have done in the past. I am fully aware that I will be paying for the course. I also pay for most courses I audit, in order to maintain my access to the Queen¿¿s library.
I hope this clarifies things. Unfortunately, I have pneumonia right now, so I¿¿m not really in a position to fight this out with the registry.
Kate
Received from Susanne Feb 1
Dear Kate,
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.
I hope your health is improving and you will have time and energy to attend to this matter.
As outlined previously, I have consulted both, with the Faculty of Arts and Science and the School of Graduate Studies and while we understand that you have taken certain courses for credit in the past, going forward you will need to conform to current regulations.
You are currently not enrolled as graduate student, as you correctly point out, you were admitted in 2008 as ¿¿post-degree undergraduate student¿ at a time when FAS allowed post-degree students to study on-campus.
I understand that you have taken a graduate course in the past ¿¿ the Department of Philosophy allowed this previously.
However, going forward, we will need to apply the rules and policies as they exist.
This means that ¿¿as an ¿undergraduate¿¿ student, you would only be allowed to take graduate courses (with special permission) IF you were in a degree plan, which you are not. (see FAS regulation below). Even then, the process is more than just agreement of the instructor.
So, if you would like to take graduate courses, you will need to follow the process as outlined in my previous email ¿¿ register/apply as a special student at the School of Graduate Studies. I don¿¿t think you need to consider this an undue burden; the process is fairly straight forward. I have copies of the paper forms if you wish to pick one up here in Philosophy.
I hope this further clarifies the situation. I realize it is not the answer you hoped for, but I do think we can have this sorted out and you may still continue to take courses in the Department of Philosophy.
Best wishes,
Susanne
Sent to Susanne Feb 1
I think the best thing to do in the circumstances is for me to officially audit the course - highest priority to to have access to course materials ASAP. My health is not improving and I don¿¿t have the time or energy to do anything further.
When I have time and energy, I will look into registering as a special student with the SGS for future courses.
Thank you,
Kate (note that I based this email on the fact that it was unproblematic to audit a grad course the previous term)
Received from Monica Corbett Feb 1
Hello. Thank you all for copying me on this email. In response to the most recent message, Kate, I confirm that to officially audit a graduate course, so that notation of the course and your official audit status shows up on your Queen¿¿s transcript, you have to have some sort of graduate student status at Queen¿¿s, either in a graduate degree program or as a Special Student. A Special Student is a student taking a graduate course at Queen¿¿s but not enrolled in a graduate degree program at Queen¿¿s. Susanne has mentioned the Special Student option to you already but please contact me if you need more information about this.
Yours sincerely
Monica Corbett
Sent Feb 1
All I want to do is pay some money to keep open my library access, have access to the course materials and because I benefit from courses at Queens and want to acknowledge this financially. I don¿¿t care about having any sort of official transcript.
Kate
Received Feb 1
Dear Kate,
I think all this can be accomplished, but it will be as a special student through SGS.
Monica Corbett had previously suggested that the best way to apply is via the paper form.
As mentioned, I have copies at hand, but I am sure SGS would also be able to assist you in this.
We are not trying to make this impossible for you, we are trying to find the right way forward.
Best,
Susanne
Sent Feb 2
I¿¿m sorry I¿¿m reacting with such exasperation. As I mentioned, I¿¿m ill - I have pneumonia, no energy, and am only getting out of bed to attend classes. This is a huge amount more unanticipated difficulty than I can currently deal with.
Is there anywhere I can get the forms online This would help.
Kate
Received Feb 2
Hi Kate,
The forms are not online.
In order to go through this process more efficiently, it is indeed better to do the paper form, rather than the online application.
That said, I am attaching the scanned copy of the form so you can print and then complete by hand. Very old-fashion, I admit.
You will basically only need to complete that form and submit it with your payment (application fee to SGS of 105).
Payment can be made by cheque or money order ¿¿ please check with SGS for details on the latter 613-533-6100.
You will not need to supply transcripts nor request letters of reference for the special student status.
IMPORTANT
Please note, the deadline to enroll you into the course is this coming Thursday, Feb 8, 2018.
By then the School of Graduate Studies will have to have received the form and payment and had time to review and accept you ¿¿ before I can go in and enroll you in the course.
So, if you could complete the form over the weekend and return to SGS on Monday with payment that would probably be best.
Best,
Susanne
Sent Feb 5 (the minute I realized the course was also run as an undergrad course)
Hi Susanne,
Just realized there might be another possibility - this course also runs as PHIL 464, undergrad. Could I register for this for credit
Kate
Received Feb 5
Hi Kate,
You will need to talk to FAS -Michelle Gallant- about this.
We are now way past any add/drop date for undergrad courses.
I have outlined to you how this can still be done as you wanted it - I am not sure what your hesitation is about proceeding as special student.
Susanne
Sent Feb 5
a. financial - apparently I will have to pay student activity fees as well I know that for undergrads this is about 1000.
b. admin. This is difficult at the best of times and is more than I can manage right now.
As I have said repeatedly, I am sick, with pneumonia, and this is a huge level of difficulty beyond what I expected. I am surprised that the option of auditing the equivalent undergrad course was not raised at the time the difficulties re the grad course emerged.
I had the initial forms in well in time for undergraduate add/drop.
Kate
Mishap 3
I¿¿d been informed by my doctor before term began that I wasn¿¿t contagious. I certainly wouldn¿¿t have risked other people¿¿s health by going to class otherwise. However, what I didn¿¿t anticipate is that I could pick up a further infection ¿¿ I was much sicker from Feb 5 for about two weeks than I had been at any time previously. I obtained new antibiotics from Hotel DIeu on 10th Feb but was too sick to go to class on 13th Feb (and didn¿¿t think the possibility of contagion was fair to other students). I ignored all emails after about the 5th until the 14th
Received Feb 6 (and, thankfully, not read at the time. I am very uncomfortable about the tone of this email.)
Dear Kate,
I can appreciate your frustration, but am wondering if you can appreciate how much time on our end has now been invested in trying to sort out what is possible and outlining the options ¿¿ all the while you are not in a degree program at Queen¿¿s. Your fellow students in the classes you are asking to take all have to pay various fees to have the privilege of studying at a post-secondary institution.
If you are concerned about the costs, please contact Monica at SGS ¿¿ we have repeatedly offered to help with questions.
I had advised you to contact Michelle Gallant in regards to the undergrad audit option; I see you have copied Nancy Salay on this message, but she will not be able to sort out the FAS policies that apply in this case.
I would suggest you contact Michelle Gallant (copied on this email) and see if auditing the course as undergrad is still possible.
Best,
Susanne
Received from Michelle Gallant Feb 7 (and not read at the time)
Hi Kate,
Since there have been a lot of emails, I will state the 4 options that I see in the thread below so then you can decide which option you would like to pursue at this point in time. I have numbered them below for clarity. ¿
1. Apply for Special Student Status in the School of Graduate Studies. The deadline for this is February 8th.
For questions about Graduate Studies, please speak with my colleague, Monica Corbett, who is copied on this email.
I believe Susanne has sent the forms to you. If you would like them emailed again, please let me know.
2. Regarding adding an undergraduate course for credit, it is past the date to add the PHIL 464 course.
You do have the option to appeal to add the course, for that you must make a request to the Associate Dean. In your appeal letter you could refer to you submitting the academic change form on January 12 prior to the January 19th deadline.
Directions for how to make such an appeal are at the end of this email in italics.
You would want to make an appeal as soon as possible.
Please note that should this appeal be approved, there would be a fee for the course as well as a late add fee assigned by the Registrar¿¿s Office.
3. Regarding adding an undergraduate course to audit, it is past the date to add the PHIL 464 course.
You could appeal to add the course as an audit, for that you must make a request to the Associate Dean. Directions are at the end of this email in italics. In your appeal letter you could refer to you submitting the academic change form on January 12 prior to the January 19th deadline.
Please note that should this appeal be approved, there would be a fee for the course (audit is half the fee for the course) as well as a late add fee.
You would want to make an appeal as soon as possible
Further, should your appeal be approved, I have included the Academic Regulations (see 5.1 below) around auditing courses as I find students often do not know they are not be entitled to submit assignments or write examinations.
4. Aware of your health issues that you have shared, you may wish to consider the 3 options for another term and not take a course this winter 2018 term.
I¿¿d be happy to share the deadlines for the three options above for the fall 2018 term (we don¿¿t offer on-campus courses in the summer term) if that is a help.
Please let us know what option you will pursue.
Best wishes and take care,
Michelle
(instructions on how to submit an appeal followed)
Sent by Michelle Gallant Feb 14
Hi Kate,
I have not heard a response from you regarding the four options that were proposed on my February 7 email.
I did confirm that you have not submitted an academic appeal to add the undergraduate course, PHIL 464, for credit or audit.
Further, I see that you already have audited this course in winter 2015.
As you are not registered in the PHIL 464 course, you are not able to continue to attend the PHIL 464 course nor submit any work for this course.
I do hope that your health improves so that you may take a course in the fall 2018 term --- wither they be graduate courses as a Special Student or an undergraduate course.
If you need assistance with registration in undergraduate courses (for credit or audit) in a subsequent term, please contact me and I would be happy to assist you.
The course timetable listing courses that are offered and when they are held will be posted in June.
Best wishes,
Michelle
Sent Feb 14
Hi Michelle,
I am really sick, and have been unable to deal with any admin. This is a personal failing at the best of times, and this is not the best of times.
Hotel Dieu gave me a new course of antibiotics on Saturday, but I am still the worst I have been in two months of being ill. I should get the results of some further testing later this week.
I really, really can¿¿t do any more than I am doing to sort this out and I am very sorry that this is making such a muddle.
I would be happy to provide a doctor¿¿s note if this is helpful.
Kate
Received Feb 14
Hi Kate,
Thanks for your email. ¿
Please note that even with a doctor¿¿s note, you are not able to continue to attend the PHIL 464 course nor submit any work for this course.
If you wish to appeal to add the undergraduate course for credit or audit, please follow the direction in my February 7th email.
I do hope that your health improves I am so sorry to hear that you have been ill for two months You may wish to consider focusing on getting healthy for this winter term and taking courses in the fall as then you could pursue the Special Student option in the School of Graduate Studies which could help gain access to the graduate courses that you initially wanted.
If you need assistance with registration in undergraduate courses (for credit or audit) in a subsequent term (fall), please contact me and I would be happy to assist you.
Best wishes,
Michelle
Sent Feb 14
Next week is reading week, when there are no classes anyway. I was too sick to go to class yesterday (and was also concerned that the new infection might be contagious).
I should know by the end of the week what¿¿s happening health-wise and can then decide whether audit or credit for 464 is appropriate.
My partner has offered to help me with the appeal to audit or take 464 for credit, so, as soon as I feel able to, I will start work on this and should be able to get it in early next week. The doctor¿¿s note offer was about my inability to do the admin, not a request to attend class.
Doing the philosophy has been a major help to me in staying sane while bed-bound (most of the time I¿¿ve been able to read - exception being last week when I wasn¿¿t responding to emails) so I want to continue in some form if possible.
I'd got into a routine with taking Queen¿¿s classes - it¿¿s unfortunate that the rules changing coincided with being sick.
Thanks
Kate
Received Feb 14
Hi Kate,
Thanks for your note. I do hope you are feeling better soon
Just to be clear, you are not able to attend the PHIL 464 class or submit work as you are not registered.
Only if your appeal is granted to add the class late may you attend.
Best wishes,
Michelle
Mishap 4
I did not hear from the doctor by the end of the week regarding the further tests, so phoned this morning (Tues 20th) ¿¿ the results are in, but she is away until next week. I am hence unable to make the decision of whether to take the course for credit or to audit it, as I am completely uncertain about my future health. I will need to go for just auditing. On the other hand, the infection that really wiped me out seems to have cleared up: I am no longer contagious. This also means, however, that I will be unable to get a doctor¿¿s note until next week.
This process has created a great deal of stress for me that could have been avoided by:
1. informing me of rule changes. I was allowed to audit a grad course in fall 2017 and to take grad courses for credit in past years ¿¿ why was I not informed when the rules were changed before the current situation arose
2. Being aware of alternatives: why was the option of taking the equivalent undergrad course not mentioned at the time
3. Getting back to me promptly ¿¿ there was a delay of 10 days in answering my email of 12th Jan ¿¿ which put me well past the undergrad deadline.
4. Not assuming that I have been trying to cheat the system. The Feb 6 email was particularly unnecessary. You might like to know that everything else in my life has been severely impacted by being ill as well. In particular, I am already supporting one Syrian family for more than 1000 a month and should be fundraising right now for another Syrian family due to arrive soon, which I have been unable to do. Of course I am unwilling to pay unnecessary application fees and hefty student activity fees for services that I will not use in the circumstances.
There is one further consideration: I am disabled with anxiety and depression (this should be on record somewhere). This is mostly under control ¿¿ but I get acutely anxious doing any form of paperwork, and, with very little energy due to being ill, dealing with this has been a huge ordeal and has certainly contributed to the slowness of my recovery. I am not ¿¿lazy¿ about paperwork, as seems to have been the assumption.
In conclusion, I ask for permission to enroll late to audit course Phil 464.
Yours sincerely
Kate Mackrell, 4696512
I am giving the full circumstances - this will be longer than a page.
I am writing to request permission to audit course Phil 464.
There have been a number of mixups in attempting to register for the grad equivalent of this course, Phil 864, which I have been attempting to do since 11th Jan 2018, exacerbated by my having had pneumonia since early December. This means I have been reliant on email to attempt to sort things out ¿¿ I have only had the energy to get to class. In full expectation of being able to register and pay for the course, I have attended all but one class, have presented two short seminars, and have begun work on the paper for the course.
Mixup number 1:
Every term I either audit or take for credit one course. I have been doing this since I became a post-degree student in 2008. These have included both undergrad and grad courses. I am doing a PhD part time through UCL in the UK and such courses have been invaluable support to my academic work. I most recently audited Phil 850 in fall 2017, with no issues with enrollment.
However, without my being informed, the system has apparently changed, and the procedure I have been through on countless occasions (getting the signed approval of the lecturer on the undergrad academic change form and then submitting to the philosophy dept) is apparently no longer correct. The only change on my part was that, due to illness, I sent the form electronically, together with an email from the instructor.
Here is the email correspondence:
Sent to adminphil on 11 Jan
Hi - just sent you an academic change form. Below is an email from D. Salay confirming that I have permission to take the course.
Let me know if there is anything else I need to do.
Thanks
Kate Mackrell
Begin forwarded message:
From: Nancy Salay salay@queensu.ca
Subject: Re: taking your course
Date: January 10, 2018 at 9:38:24 AM GMT-5
To: Kate Mackrell katemackrell@mac.com
You have my permission to sign into PHIL 864.
This e-mail should suffice.
N.
Received from Susanne Cliff-Jungling 12th Jan
Hi Kate,
I just noticed that you completed the undergrad form, not the one for SGS.
I realize you have audited courses with us before, but was confused why you would want to be considered an undergrad student taking a grad course ¿¿ until I realized it was just the wrong form.
I will create a new form and attach the old with your signature on it; and will ask Graduate Coordinator David Bakhurst to sign. Going forward, can you please ensure you use the SGS academic change form for these course audits Blank form attached. It will help avoid confusion on our end.
That said, while I was trying to sort this out in my head, I pulled your record and noticed that you have two courses on your transcript (PHIL 850 and PHIL 841) which show up as ¿¿F¿ rather than AU for audit. Were these indeed courses you took for credit or should they have been listed as audits and something went wrong
Please let me know.
Thanks
Susanne
Sent to Susanne Cliff-Jungling Jan 12
Hi Susanne,
Sorry about the confusion. I¿¿m actually a post-degree student at Queen¿¿s rather than a grad student, which I think technically makes me an undergrad.
No, the PHIL 850 and PHIL 841 were indeed F¿¿s - I didn¿¿t complete them because I was unexpectedly up to my neck working with Syrian refugees. I¿¿m hoping to negotiate completing these at some point, but not right now.
I¿¿m working on a PhD at UCL in the UK - I do courses at Queen¿¿s for credit when they are directly relevant to my research - and I anticipate having the time to do the work Miscalculation two years ago. That¿¿s why I just audited for awhile.
I want to take this course PHIL 864 for credit - time to take the risk again.
Kate
Mixup 2
I was not aware that the course was also running as an undergrad course. I¿¿d heard about it from the grad students in Phil 850 the previous term, which is why I was interested in taking it. There were no handouts and I couldn¿¿t access the online course materials, so I never actually saw an undergrad course number. I thought that the undergrads in the class simply had special permission to take a grad course. I only learned that it was an undergrad course as well when a fellow student sent me an email entitled ¿¿Phil 464¿ on Feb 5. I would have been perfectly happy to register for this course ¿¿ what I wanted was the class discussion, the course materials, and feedback from the instructor. I didn¿¿t care whether or not the course was a grad course. This possibility was not pointed out, and I heard nothing further until it was past the 19th Jan deadline for registering for an undergrad course.
Sent to Susanne Cliff-Jungling on Jan 22:
Hi Susanne,
I note that I¿¿m not yet registered for PHIL 864 Hope there hasn¿¿t been a problem with this.
Kate
Received from Susanne Cliff-Jungling on Jan 24
Hi Kate,
Well, this has indeed been somewhat of an issue.
It is not exactly clear to me how you were able to take the previous grad courses ¿for credit¿¿ (i.e., receiving a grade), but going forward that will not be possible under your current status at Queen¿¿ ( as far as I can tell from your transcript, that is ASC Non-Degree).
This status refers to undergraduate and so does not apply for the graduate courses. Even undergraduate courses, with the status you currently have, would only be possible as audits, not for credit.
This might have been possible in the past, but current regulations would not allow this.
So, going forward and assuming that you want to take the graduate course (PHIL 864), and be officially enrolled in a grad course and have it show up on the transcript and get a grade for it (as opposed to auditing the course), you have to apply to SGS to do so under special student status¿¿which means you would be enrolled in a graduate course but not taking a graduate degree (if you get accepted). You would have to pay a fee to take the course. You would not be an undergrad non degree or post degree student in this case, since the course you want to take for credit is a graduate course.
There is more information on this regulation here: http://www.queensu.ca/sgs/graduate-calendar/admission-and-registration under Student Categories, Special Student.
You will need to fill out the paper version of the application form (available at SGS; I have also quested copies and should have them here in the department by Friday) and pay the application fee by cheque or money order. As you can see from the website, there will also be fees for the course and student activity fees. For details you will need to consult SGS and/or the Office of the Registrar.
Please let me know if you have any questions.
Best,
Susanne
Sent to Susanne on Jan 25
Hi Susanne,
I am a post-degree undergraduate student in the Faculty of Arts and Science and hence have the right to take courses for credit. Mostly, as I have a lot of other responsibilities (I am doing a PhD at another institution), I audit courses, but when something is particularly relevant I take the course in order to ¿¿force¿ myself to do the work and in order to have feedback from the instructor.
As such, I simply need the permission of the instructor to take a grad level course as an undergrad, and this is what I have done in the past. I am fully aware that I will be paying for the course. I also pay for most courses I audit, in order to maintain my access to the Queen¿¿s library.
I hope this clarifies things. Unfortunately, I have pneumonia right now, so I¿¿m not really in a position to fight this out with the registry.
Kate
Received from Susanne Feb 1
Dear Kate,
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.
I hope your health is improving and you will have time and energy to attend to this matter.
As outlined previously, I have consulted both, with the Faculty of Arts and Science and the School of Graduate Studies and while we understand that you have taken certain courses for credit in the past, going forward you will need to conform to current regulations.
You are currently not enrolled as graduate student, as you correctly point out, you were admitted in 2008 as ¿¿post-degree undergraduate student¿ at a time when FAS allowed post-degree students to study on-campus.
I understand that you have taken a graduate course in the past ¿¿ the Department of Philosophy allowed this previously.
However, going forward, we will need to apply the rules and policies as they exist.
This means that ¿¿as an ¿undergraduate¿¿ student, you would only be allowed to take graduate courses (with special permission) IF you were in a degree plan, which you are not. (see FAS regulation below). Even then, the process is more than just agreement of the instructor.
So, if you would like to take graduate courses, you will need to follow the process as outlined in my previous email ¿¿ register/apply as a special student at the School of Graduate Studies. I don¿¿t think you need to consider this an undue burden; the process is fairly straight forward. I have copies of the paper forms if you wish to pick one up here in Philosophy.
I hope this further clarifies the situation. I realize it is not the answer you hoped for, but I do think we can have this sorted out and you may still continue to take courses in the Department of Philosophy.
Best wishes,
Susanne
Sent to Susanne Feb 1
I think the best thing to do in the circumstances is for me to officially audit the course - highest priority to to have access to course materials ASAP. My health is not improving and I don¿¿t have the time or energy to do anything further.
When I have time and energy, I will look into registering as a special student with the SGS for future courses.
Thank you,
Kate (note that I based this email on the fact that it was unproblematic to audit a grad course the previous term)
Received from Monica Corbett Feb 1
Hello. Thank you all for copying me on this email. In response to the most recent message, Kate, I confirm that to officially audit a graduate course, so that notation of the course and your official audit status shows up on your Queen¿¿s transcript, you have to have some sort of graduate student status at Queen¿¿s, either in a graduate degree program or as a Special Student. A Special Student is a student taking a graduate course at Queen¿¿s but not enrolled in a graduate degree program at Queen¿¿s. Susanne has mentioned the Special Student option to you already but please contact me if you need more information about this.
Yours sincerely
Monica Corbett
Sent Feb 1
All I want to do is pay some money to keep open my library access, have access to the course materials and because I benefit from courses at Queens and want to acknowledge this financially. I don¿¿t care about having any sort of official transcript.
Kate
Received Feb 1
Dear Kate,
I think all this can be accomplished, but it will be as a special student through SGS.
Monica Corbett had previously suggested that the best way to apply is via the paper form.
As mentioned, I have copies at hand, but I am sure SGS would also be able to assist you in this.
We are not trying to make this impossible for you, we are trying to find the right way forward.
Best,
Susanne
Sent Feb 2
I¿¿m sorry I¿¿m reacting with such exasperation. As I mentioned, I¿¿m ill - I have pneumonia, no energy, and am only getting out of bed to attend classes. This is a huge amount more unanticipated difficulty than I can currently deal with.
Is there anywhere I can get the forms online This would help.
Kate
Received Feb 2
Hi Kate,
The forms are not online.
In order to go through this process more efficiently, it is indeed better to do the paper form, rather than the online application.
That said, I am attaching the scanned copy of the form so you can print and then complete by hand. Very old-fashion, I admit.
You will basically only need to complete that form and submit it with your payment (application fee to SGS of 105).
Payment can be made by cheque or money order ¿¿ please check with SGS for details on the latter 613-533-6100.
You will not need to supply transcripts nor request letters of reference for the special student status.
IMPORTANT
Please note, the deadline to enroll you into the course is this coming Thursday, Feb 8, 2018.
By then the School of Graduate Studies will have to have received the form and payment and had time to review and accept you ¿¿ before I can go in and enroll you in the course.
So, if you could complete the form over the weekend and return to SGS on Monday with payment that would probably be best.
Best,
Susanne
Sent Feb 5 (the minute I realized the course was also run as an undergrad course)
Hi Susanne,
Just realized there might be another possibility - this course also runs as PHIL 464, undergrad. Could I register for this for credit
Kate
Received Feb 5
Hi Kate,
You will need to talk to FAS -Michelle Gallant- about this.
We are now way past any add/drop date for undergrad courses.
I have outlined to you how this can still be done as you wanted it - I am not sure what your hesitation is about proceeding as special student.
Susanne
Sent Feb 5
a. financial - apparently I will have to pay student activity fees as well I know that for undergrads this is about 1000.
b. admin. This is difficult at the best of times and is more than I can manage right now.
As I have said repeatedly, I am sick, with pneumonia, and this is a huge level of difficulty beyond what I expected. I am surprised that the option of auditing the equivalent undergrad course was not raised at the time the difficulties re the grad course emerged.
I had the initial forms in well in time for undergraduate add/drop.
Kate
Mishap 3
I¿¿d been informed by my doctor before term began that I wasn¿¿t contagious. I certainly wouldn¿¿t have risked other people¿¿s health by going to class otherwise. However, what I didn¿¿t anticipate is that I could pick up a further infection ¿¿ I was much sicker from Feb 5 for about two weeks than I had been at any time previously. I obtained new antibiotics from Hotel DIeu on 10th Feb but was too sick to go to class on 13th Feb (and didn¿¿t think the possibility of contagion was fair to other students). I ignored all emails after about the 5th until the 14th
Received Feb 6 (and, thankfully, not read at the time. I am very uncomfortable about the tone of this email.)
Dear Kate,
I can appreciate your frustration, but am wondering if you can appreciate how much time on our end has now been invested in trying to sort out what is possible and outlining the options ¿¿ all the while you are not in a degree program at Queen¿¿s. Your fellow students in the classes you are asking to take all have to pay various fees to have the privilege of studying at a post-secondary institution.
If you are concerned about the costs, please contact Monica at SGS ¿¿ we have repeatedly offered to help with questions.
I had advised you to contact Michelle Gallant in regards to the undergrad audit option; I see you have copied Nancy Salay on this message, but she will not be able to sort out the FAS policies that apply in this case.
I would suggest you contact Michelle Gallant (copied on this email) and see if auditing the course as undergrad is still possible.
Best,
Susanne
Received from Michelle Gallant Feb 7 (and not read at the time)
Hi Kate,
Since there have been a lot of emails, I will state the 4 options that I see in the thread below so then you can decide which option you would like to pursue at this point in time. I have numbered them below for clarity. ¿
1. Apply for Special Student Status in the School of Graduate Studies. The deadline for this is February 8th.
For questions about Graduate Studies, please speak with my colleague, Monica Corbett, who is copied on this email.
I believe Susanne has sent the forms to you. If you would like them emailed again, please let me know.
2. Regarding adding an undergraduate course for credit, it is past the date to add the PHIL 464 course.
You do have the option to appeal to add the course, for that you must make a request to the Associate Dean. In your appeal letter you could refer to you submitting the academic change form on January 12 prior to the January 19th deadline.
Directions for how to make such an appeal are at the end of this email in italics.
You would want to make an appeal as soon as possible.
Please note that should this appeal be approved, there would be a fee for the course as well as a late add fee assigned by the Registrar¿¿s Office.
3. Regarding adding an undergraduate course to audit, it is past the date to add the PHIL 464 course.
You could appeal to add the course as an audit, for that you must make a request to the Associate Dean. Directions are at the end of this email in italics. In your appeal letter you could refer to you submitting the academic change form on January 12 prior to the January 19th deadline.
Please note that should this appeal be approved, there would be a fee for the course (audit is half the fee for the course) as well as a late add fee.
You would want to make an appeal as soon as possible
Further, should your appeal be approved, I have included the Academic Regulations (see 5.1 below) around auditing courses as I find students often do not know they are not be entitled to submit assignments or write examinations.
4. Aware of your health issues that you have shared, you may wish to consider the 3 options for another term and not take a course this winter 2018 term.
I¿¿d be happy to share the deadlines for the three options above for the fall 2018 term (we don¿¿t offer on-campus courses in the summer term) if that is a help.
Please let us know what option you will pursue.
Best wishes and take care,
Michelle
(instructions on how to submit an appeal followed)
Sent by Michelle Gallant Feb 14
Hi Kate,
I have not heard a response from you regarding the four options that were proposed on my February 7 email.
I did confirm that you have not submitted an academic appeal to add the undergraduate course, PHIL 464, for credit or audit.
Further, I see that you already have audited this course in winter 2015.
As you are not registered in the PHIL 464 course, you are not able to continue to attend the PHIL 464 course nor submit any work for this course.
I do hope that your health improves so that you may take a course in the fall 2018 term --- wither they be graduate courses as a Special Student or an undergraduate course.
If you need assistance with registration in undergraduate courses (for credit or audit) in a subsequent term, please contact me and I would be happy to assist you.
The course timetable listing courses that are offered and when they are held will be posted in June.
Best wishes,
Michelle
Sent Feb 14
Hi Michelle,
I am really sick, and have been unable to deal with any admin. This is a personal failing at the best of times, and this is not the best of times.
Hotel Dieu gave me a new course of antibiotics on Saturday, but I am still the worst I have been in two months of being ill. I should get the results of some further testing later this week.
I really, really can¿¿t do any more than I am doing to sort this out and I am very sorry that this is making such a muddle.
I would be happy to provide a doctor¿¿s note if this is helpful.
Kate
Received Feb 14
Hi Kate,
Thanks for your email. ¿
Please note that even with a doctor¿¿s note, you are not able to continue to attend the PHIL 464 course nor submit any work for this course.
If you wish to appeal to add the undergraduate course for credit or audit, please follow the direction in my February 7th email.
I do hope that your health improves I am so sorry to hear that you have been ill for two months You may wish to consider focusing on getting healthy for this winter term and taking courses in the fall as then you could pursue the Special Student option in the School of Graduate Studies which could help gain access to the graduate courses that you initially wanted.
If you need assistance with registration in undergraduate courses (for credit or audit) in a subsequent term (fall), please contact me and I would be happy to assist you.
Best wishes,
Michelle
Sent Feb 14
Next week is reading week, when there are no classes anyway. I was too sick to go to class yesterday (and was also concerned that the new infection might be contagious).
I should know by the end of the week what¿¿s happening health-wise and can then decide whether audit or credit for 464 is appropriate.
My partner has offered to help me with the appeal to audit or take 464 for credit, so, as soon as I feel able to, I will start work on this and should be able to get it in early next week. The doctor¿¿s note offer was about my inability to do the admin, not a request to attend class.
Doing the philosophy has been a major help to me in staying sane while bed-bound (most of the time I¿¿ve been able to read - exception being last week when I wasn¿¿t responding to emails) so I want to continue in some form if possible.
I'd got into a routine with taking Queen¿¿s classes - it¿¿s unfortunate that the rules changing coincided with being sick.
Thanks
Kate
Received Feb 14
Hi Kate,
Thanks for your note. I do hope you are feeling better soon
Just to be clear, you are not able to attend the PHIL 464 class or submit work as you are not registered.
Only if your appeal is granted to add the class late may you attend.
Best wishes,
Michelle
Mishap 4
I did not hear from the doctor by the end of the week regarding the further tests, so phoned this morning (Tues 20th) ¿¿ the results are in, but she is away until next week. I am hence unable to make the decision of whether to take the course for credit or to audit it, as I am completely uncertain about my future health. I will need to go for just auditing. On the other hand, the infection that really wiped me out seems to have cleared up: I am no longer contagious. This also means, however, that I will be unable to get a doctor¿¿s note until next week.
This process has created a great deal of stress for me that could have been avoided by:
1. informing me of rule changes. I was allowed to audit a grad course in fall 2017 and to take grad courses for credit in past years ¿¿ why was I not informed when the rules were changed before the current situation arose
2. Being aware of alternatives: why was the option of taking the equivalent undergrad course not mentioned at the time
3. Getting back to me promptly ¿¿ there was a delay of 10 days in answering my email of 12th Jan ¿¿ which put me well past the undergrad deadline.
4. Not assuming that I have been trying to cheat the system. The Feb 6 email was particularly unnecessary. You might like to know that everything else in my life has been severely impacted by being ill as well. In particular, I am already supporting one Syrian family for more than 1000 a month and should be fundraising right now for another Syrian family due to arrive soon, which I have been unable to do. Of course I am unwilling to pay unnecessary application fees and hefty student activity fees for services that I will not use in the circumstances.
There is one further consideration: I am disabled with anxiety and depression (this should be on record somewhere). This is mostly under control ¿¿ but I get acutely anxious doing any form of paperwork, and, with very little energy due to being ill, dealing with this has been a huge ordeal and has certainly contributed to the slowness of my recovery. I am not ¿¿lazy¿ about paperwork, as seems to have been the assumption.
In conclusion, I ask for permission to enroll late to audit course Phil 464.
Yours sincerely
Kate Mackrell, 4696512